"There is a deep sense of justice in the work that I do"
An interview with Neurodiversity affirmative therapist Joel Schwartz
From my first day standing in front of a classroom of students with “special needs,” I have been filled with skepticism about how we view and approach this population. Why does a child who struggles to read need a completely separate classroom? Why is our school pressuring the parents of a seven-year-old to put him on medication when he is perfectly happy as long as he can bounce at his desk all day and occasionally monologue about his pet turtle? Why is the word “disorder” used to describe so many people I find to be refreshingly sane?
Then I heard Dr. Joel Schwartz interviewed on a podcast. He used phrases like “Neurodivergence” and “ableism” and insisted that we ask people about their own experiences, rather than just fill out some questionnaires and slap a label on them. He introduced me to a whole world of practicioners who view the children and adults they work with as the true experts, and society at large as a highly subjective, excessively narrow place that could use some intensive interventions.
Sarah: Hi Joel! So happy to have you here. Please introduce yourself.
Joel: I am a proud ADHD clinical psychologist practicing out of the Central Coast in California. I am an entrepreneur who consults, coaches, and provides education about Neurodiversity worldwide. I am father and husband to a wonderful Neurodivergent family. I’m a horror geek, a music obsessive, a sensory seeker, and a forever learner.
Dr. Joel making me want to break down and get a professional headshot
What does it mean to be a “Neurodiversity affirmative” therapist?
The Neurodiversity paradigm seeks to shift understanding of different ways of thinking and being from medical-based dysfunctions to empowerment-based acceptance. Most therapies and interventions geared towards Neurodivergent people are aimed at changing who they fundamentally are. They are about conformity, functionality based on ableist ideas, and providing tools to enable them to act normal. This results in further shame, anxiety, and loss of joy and identity in order to function better by others’ definitions. Neurodiversity affirmative therapy says “screw that.” It is about empowering people to fully be themselves, to find happiness and success on their own terms, and to connect with people as authentically as possible (or to not connect if that’s the preference).
The affirming of Neurodiverse experiences begins during the first session. We check in with clients about their various sensory and cognitive needs and alter the environment to fit them instead of requiring them to suffer in a space that doesn’t meet their sensory and cognitive needs. Our intake process is loose and collaborative, allowing folks to tell their stories in a way that is more comfortable for them. We welcome assistive technology and other alternative ways of communicating.
How does your own ADHD inform your work?
One of the gifts of ADHD is being able to problem solve in the moment and being extremely present. I can really key into my clients’ experiences and my ability to free associate to all the little tidbits of knowledge I have acquired through my life allows me to collaborate with clients to create deep and rich understandings of their experiences. It’s also FULL of humor. Also, because I have little patience for Neurotypical conversation, my clients and I shed typical rules of interaction and are able to connect deeply and find a flow of experience that is energizing and healing. We free flow off topic and into the woods and back which is maddening to many therapists, but to my clients and I is an essential part of uncovering unconscious issues and using creativity to heal. Finally, because I was also chronically misunderstood as a child (and still am a lot), there is a deep sense of justice in the work that I do and a profound meaningful feeling to see my clients become empowered.
This is an actual scan of my brain after a trip to Ikea
What kinds of patterns are you seeing in your Neurodivergent clients, now that the world is a shit-show?
When the world first closed down, there was a sense of mourning in everyone. For many of my Neurodivergent clients this was compounded by a sense of betrayal. They have been told their whole lives that if they behaved in a certain way and conformed, they would get all these wonderful things, all these chances of independence and self-expression. But the world closing put an end to all of that. However, the pandemic has also had some positive consequences. Many of my clients are thriving because they don’t have to constantly conform to Neurotypical standards. They have less anxiety, more creativity, and are able to connect with people online in a deeper way than they have been able to do in their non-virtual lives.
On the other hand, many are feeling the horrible anxiety. Many Neurodivergent people are very much clued into changes in the environment and feel it deeply. So the fires, police brutality, civil unrest, and general bad feelings surrounding the pandemic weigh heavier on them than others. One interesting trend is that a number of my clients are having excessive fears about being hurt by the police. Delving into this deeper has revealed old traumas having to do with behavioral interventions in childhood. They feel that if they do not behave in a certain way, if they do not conform, they will be hurt, abandoned, or punished. It really is revealing how damaging and invalidating even some of the most well-meaning interventions can be if they are provided without being explicitly Neurodiversity affirming.
You wrote a brilliant blog post about how Neurodivergent ways of thinking are often viewed as “against regulations” by our rigid society. What would the world be like if Neurodiversity was more widely accepted and understood?
Thank you so much. That post is probably my favorite piece of professional writing. I can say without hesitation that a world that valued Neurodivergent experiences would be far more just, far more equitable, and far more advanced. Neurodivergent people tend to be great problem solvers and aren’t so much into hierarchies and power (unless there’s significant trauma around these issues). They feel deeply and can’t help but speak their truth. So many amazing minds have been stifled, silenced, or killed because of rampant ableism. Thousands of potential Newtons and Einsteins have been silenced because people did not understand them or there were not adequate accommodations to help them. Also, because of environmental sensitivities and affinity towards the earth and science, the world would be far more environmentally healthy and sustainable. I’ve worked with a number of clients exactly like Greta Thunberg, and I’m sure I’m not alone. If these young children were allowed to pursue their interests instead of being herded into a school system that values compliance, imagine what could be done. Finally, relationships in general would be far better. The need for direct communication among Neurodivergent people in order to remain clear would be a norm, and all the crap that goes on in relationships due to poor communication would be a thing of the past.
I want to be more like Greta when I grow up…
What’s one little piece of joy you can share with us for these dark times?
I’ve recently been turned on to a musician, Will Wood and the Tapeworms. Wood’s music is a conglomeration of so many of my musical interests and passions, and the lyrical territory has to do with psychology and being an oddball. The song “2012” off the album Self-Ish is my current jam.
Jam out, friends. And thank you Joel!
More More More!!
-Check out Joel’s blog posts on reframing ADHD, staying in the productive-worry zone, and other greatnesses
-Watch Jac den Houting’s TedTalk “Why everything you know about autism is wrong,” a 14-minute primer on the problems with the medical model of disability and why shopping malls are the worst :)
-Read more about Neurodiversity at Nick Walker’s Neurocosmopolitan
-Subscribe to The Listening World and get a weekly dose of Neurodivergent poetry!